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New Jersey Deserves the Recognition

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Why New Jersey Should Demand the Giants, Jets and Red Bulls be called NJ

Drop NY - NJ Giants, NJ Jets, NJ Red BullsThis post came about because someone had commented on the New Jersey Freezes $10 million in Cultural Grants article and I felt that my reply was important enough to bear repeating in its own article.

What a bogus argument from someone who never let facts get in the way of a rant. Sports Franchises are named after CITIES, not States (O.K. rare exceptions the New England Patriots and the old California Angels who are now LAA). New Jersey is STILL getting all the revenue from these teams, that’s why they buit these stadiums to keep them in Jersey. New York doesn’t get a royalty because a team whould rather be known as the New York XXX rather than the Secacus XXX.

Typical NJ inferiority Complex

–David Foreman

First let me say that being recognized for the many things that happen and take place in OUR state, has nothing to do with some inferiority complex – we have nothing to feel inferior about.  We as New Jerseyans do have a right to receive the credit for having great things in OUR state, just as New York or anywhere else has a right to be proud and take credit for what happens WITHIN THEIR borders.  What happens in New Jersey is New JERSEY – NOT  New York,  NOT Philadelphia.

Second – I love how the person says – “Sports teams are named after CITIES, not States” – then lists two exceptions. Of course they left out both the New Jersey Nets and the THREE time Stanley Cup champions – the New Jersey Devils (Please remind me what place  the  Rangers and Islanders are in again???).  He also seems to ignore the fact that if the Nets move to Brooklyn – they aren’t going to carry a city’s name – they are going to carry a borough name and be called the Brooklyn Nets. Brooklyn is no longer a city and hasn’t been for 100 years. Just because in GENERAL sports teams carry a city’s name, doesn’t mean they have to.  That being said, NO OTHER state, other than those who host the DC teams, have teams who claim to play for a city outside their home state.

As for getting revenue from the teams – in general sports teams cost more than the revenue they generate. What sports teams do is bring notoriety to a state or city. While corporations spend 100’s of millions of dollars to get their name on a stadium to sponsor, what do you think is the effect of having a city or state name on the teams uniform. What do you think is the affect when the Giants do their press conference and the backdrop is coverd with “NY”? What about when the announcers say New York this or New York that or when they list the game as “so and so at New York” – that is publicity and free advertising for the city. It instills a certain image of a place to people.  Read – Major League Losers: The Real Cost Of Sports And Who’s Paying For It

When people wear a Giants jersey or hat or shirt, and it has “NY” on it –  everyone says “New York” – they’re walking billboards for New York. Yeah – it’s the logo for the Giants – but what comes to mind first is NY. It is even MORE powerful when the team wins the Super Bowl like the Giants did. When a team is a winning team with a extremely popular sport, it brings even more prestige.  It is free adverting which helps tourism and garner respect for the location. When it comes to the Giants, Jets and Red Bulls, New York benefits from this, not New Jersey.

New Jersey lost the financial benefit to hosting these teams with the sweet heart deal Codey gave them. While acting governor, Codey negotiated the deal with the Giants and forgave them 100’s of millions of dollars in back payments to the old Giants Stadium and many other deals that basically counteract the revenue that the state gets by hosting the teams, this is true for most cities/states that build stadiums to attract teams. Codey sold New Jersey out in his deal with the Giants for their new stadium.

Look at the fiasco that Florham Park went through with the Jets Headquarters and practice field.  New Jersey bought them  the land with  OUR tax money and then the town gave them all these tax breaks.  Local businesses and restaurants were expecting the players, coaches, etc to be coming in for lunch and dinner and spending money in the town during the practice season and what do the Jets do?  They turn around and basically give Florham Park the one finger thank you and go practice in New York state! Then of course we have the Red Bulls with the $160 million of  New Jersey tax money that went to fund the building of their stadium in Harrison – all the while they proudly call themselves New York and stick their nose up at New Jersey.  When it comes to these teams – our money is good – just not our name. In terms of the  Giants and Jets stadium deal – yeah  they’re paying for the stadium, but as I stated, Codey forgave them in back lease payments they owed the state on their old stadium, not to mention it’s New Jersey that is footing the bill for all the improvements to transportation, etc.

Contrary to what you think, this issue of team names has nothing to do with some inferiority complex – it has everything to do with getting credit and recognition for what New JERSEY has. It also doesn’t stop there. When Earth Day had those world wide major concerts, the one New JERSEY hosted in the Meadowlands was marketed as New York. They even went so far as to promote the Meadowlands on their website as Meadowlands NY. American Idol had the so-called New York auditions in New Jersey at the Meadowlands – but marketed as the New York Auditions and even made a New Jersey contestant pretend to the TV audience that she had to get to New York to attend. When Sean Hannity promotes his Freedom Concert that takes place at Six Flags Great Adventure in Jackson NJ, he promotes it as New York. I knew someone who attended this year and they were outraged that when he came on stage he said – “Hello New York” – she said people yelled back – “you’re in New Jersey”. His response and so many ignorant people is – “New York? New Jersey? Same thing” . Great Adventure is 60 miles south of New York.

New Jersey and New York aren’t the same – and we have a right and responsibility as citizens of OUR state to make sure that it gets promoted. The person can say that my complaining about OUR teams promoting themselves as some foreign city it is because of some perceived inferiority complex, but I would like to see New York host things and have it marketed as being held somewhere else. You would never see it happen though, because they wouldn’t stand for it.

For whatever reason – the person who made the statement above seems to think that we should just accept so much that is New Jersey being referred to as New York, while we continue to get portrayed by the media with such things as the MTV Jersey Shore show.  I don’t accept that – nor do I think New Jerseyans should accept it.  We have a right to be proud of what we have and we shouldn’t let anyplace else take the credit for those things. People are very willing to make fun and ridicule New Jersey -  but as soon as a New Jerseyan stands up – there is some out of stater – most often a New Yorker – trying to silence us.  Talk about an inferiority complex – not only does New York want to convince the world that they are the greatest and everyone should “love NY”, they also go out of their way to take credit for so many of the great things that happen in New Jersey.

34 COMMENTS

  1. Actually – we did pay for a portion of the Red Bulls Stadium – it is the New Meadowlands Stadium which we didn’t pay any money toward – yet we gave up a ton of income that we used to generate from the old stadium, as well as forgave the Giants over 100 million in back lease payments.

    Joseph – Yeah I would rather not have any of these teams here if they think that New Jersey isn’t good enough for them. Let them go across the water. If you read the book “Major League Losers” that I mentioned – you will see that major league sports really don’t have much of an economic impact. The only real impact they have is by the publicity they give the place they play in – and since these teams promote themselves as New York – it does nothing for the image of New Jersey.

    New Jerseyans are fools for allowing professional sports teams in this state without requiring them to carry either a New Jersey city as their name or New Jersey.

  2. This is from the Star Ledger –

    …New Jersey officials say they are sick and tired and aren’t going to take it anymore, especially since Red Bull New York plans to pursue a stadium project in Harrison that will be financed with $85 million in public money.

    March 2006

    And yes – we ended up giving them the money anyway. Our tax dollars at work!

    New JERSEY MetroStars renamed New YORK Red Bulls

  3. I’ll add this in there – after 30 years of Giants Stadium – how much development has gone up around the Meadowlands Sports Complex? Do you really think that East Rutherford is a booming, thriving town/city after 30 years? So after all this tax money going to support the Giants, Jets and Red Bulls – what economic benefit has there really been to the area? You do know that NJSEA is basically bankrupt right now after the deal that Codey gave to the Giants for their new stadium right?

  4. Team Mexico played a sold out “home game” at New Meadowlands Stadium, are you going to flip out about that it wasn’t Team New Jersey playing? Fact is the Giants or Jets, would not have come here if they didn’t let them keep the NY in the name which they have used since the beginning. And don’t expect the Giants or Jets to change their name, not happening. And the last years the Metrostars played under that name they were just known as the Metrostars, not the NY-NJ Metrostars.

  5. Joseph – You have a distorted sense of history don’t you? First of all – I will answer the Team Mexico comment – why would I get upset by a NON- New Jersey team being called something other than New Jersey. That comment is blatantly ridiculous and has nothing to do with my argument. My argument is about New JERSEY teams, whose home turf is New JERSEY, claiming to play somewhere else. We have international competition all the time in New Jersey and some team has to be called “home”. Now if the event that is taking place in new JERSEY is marketed as taking place in New York and not New Jersey – then I have a problem with it, as should all New Jerseyans, such as the Earth Day concerts, the World Cup competition, Hannity Concerts that take place at Great Adventure, etc.

    Second – the Giants and Jets had DROPPED the NY when they moved to New Jersey – look at their old helmets. The first two Super Bowls the Giants won NY didn’t give them a parade or anything. Mayor Koch said they were NJ teams and that NY did not give parades to out of state teams. So where did they hold their celebrations? You got it – the Meadowlands in New JERSEY – their home state and where their corporate headquarters are located. The Giants have ONLY ever won a Super Bowl in New Jersey and it was only 5 – 6 years ago that the Giants put NY back on their uniforms and started calling themselves NY again. This was because just a month or two before – the Jets did it and there was no outcry from New Jersey and New Jerseyans. As I said – if we continue to be allowed to be thought of as second class citizens to New York – then that is how we will be treated. I am not going to accept being treated as such and therefore NONE of my money will go to support ANY New Jersey team that is too ashamed to promote their home state. There are plenty of other proud to be New JERSEY teams.

    So contrary to your statement – the Giants and Jets had dropped NY from their name during over 80% of their playing time in NJ and only recently went back to NY – which is a slap in the face for New Jersey and New Jerseyans – especially since it is OUR tax money that has been going to support these teams.

    As for the MetroStars – they routinely were called NJ and yes -t hey had generally just been known as the MetroStars. They still had NOTHING to do with that foreign city across the river and they were NEVER EVER called the “NY MetroStars” – unlike the ingrates that are the Red Bulls who get our money and turn around and promote NY.

    You know what though – what is really sad – New Jerseyans have been fully brainwashed by the hype of New York. I’d like to see a local school – just a local school – have it’s team be called by the name of another school. It wouldn’t happen. Because for whatever reason – people think that Toms River South – would never share anything with Toms River North for instance (and this is the same town – not even different states). There was a possibility because of weather a couple of years ago for instance, that the high school graduation for Toms River South was going to be scheduled at the Ritacco Center only a few miles away at Toms River North. There was a HUGE outcry of people saying there was no way their high school graduation ceremony was going to be held at that location. They were actually willing to cut down on the number of people they could invite so they would not have to have their graduation at Toms River North. Yet people see NO problem with numerous events and businesses in New Jersey calling themselves New York.

    By missing out on the media attention the professional sports teams get – New Jersey loses far more in monetary and image gain by not having the Giants, Jets and Red Bulls call themselves NJ – than where a graduation is held. It is no wonder why people think that New York is the center of everything and no one has any respect for New Jersey. We let this happen as citizens of our own state. We allow businesses and organizations to walk all over us. Why should we allow another city or state to take credit for what New JERSEY has or what is going on in OUR state? Would you let someone else take credit for what you do or pay for?

  6. New York was still in the team names, when the Jets put the NY back on the helmets it was to go retro, and the reason there was no parades was because the mayor of NY at the time did not embrace these teams. If the Yankees were to move to New Jersey would you expect them to change the team name they had for 100 years? Big point, New Jersey sports wouldn’t be what it is today without Giants Stadium, the Devils and Nets wouldn’t have existed in New Jersey if it wasn’t for the Giants and Jets because Giants Stadium wouldn’t have been built. Though I may say the New Meadowlands Stadium was unnecessary because Giants Stadium was perfectly fine. Last point New Jersey has been able to grow as a state because of it’s location near New York and Philadelphia, a lot of people in Jersey work in those cities. New Jerseyians should be worried about other issues than team logos, like how we can’t get a Governor that isn’t corrupt

  7. Sorry – but part of the initial agreement was that they drop NY from their logos and were no longer to be known as NY. They were not listed as NY in the papers or anything. Some people still referred to them as NY – but they were no longer NY – and no longer were promoted as NY. Of course Koch didn’t embrace the teams – he saw them for what they were – a New Jersey team and Mayor Koch was very anti-New Jersey. New York now sees that they get all this free media attention without having to spend a dime – like the fools in New Jersey – who pay all the money and get none of the benefits of the exposure. You really have no concept I guess of the free advertising that is generated by these teams – do you? That corporations spend hundreds of millions of dollars on sponsorships – yet – NY doesn’t have to pay a dime to have THREE of our teams wearing their initials – while NJ gets the shaft.

    As for the Yankees moving here and changing their name – yeah I do expect them to take NJ – otherwise they can continue to play in the crap hole known as the Bronx. It’s no different than the Colts moving to Indianapolis, no different than when the Cleveland Browns moved. Hell – Cleveland didn’t even let the team take the “Browns” name with them. I don’t give a damn about their 100 year heritage – not my heritage. I don’t care about their team or their history. If they move here – then they are just moving here to get the tax breaks anyway and feed off of New Jersey. And brainwashed New Jerseyans will just let them.

    BTW – if you know anything about history – you would see that New Jersey did not grow as a state because of NY and Philadelphia – New Jersey was actually PREVENTED from growing by these two cities – especially New York. First – New York was pissed that when the British took over New Amsterdam that New Jersey was separated. New York complained that they lost the “best part of their lands”. Then – New York blockaded New Jersey’s harbors and forced ALL shipping to first go to NY ports and pay tariffs there before going onto NJ – just killing our shipping industry during colonial times. (New York now basically controls our ports and transportation, such as Newark Liberty, completely – it’s known as that so-called bi-state agency the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey – which for most of it’s history did NOT event include New Jersey in its name) Not only that – New York TWICE kidnapped two NJ colonial governors late in the night for not doing New York’s bidding. So – think about where New Jersey would ACTUALLY be if we hadn’t been hindered by New York for centuries. After the Revolutionary War – NJ and Connecticut were on the verge of invading NY over their underhanded tactics with control over the waterways. It was one of the reason for the Constitutional Convention and the need for the US Constitution. There is a reason why Ben Franklin described NJ as a barrel tapped at both ends – and it wasn’t because they were putting anything INTO the barrel known as New Jersey. They’re more like a swarm of locusts.

    Concerning people working in New York and Philadelphia – this is one of the key reason why our cities suffer. New York and Philadelphia are NOT New Jersey cities and it does nothing for New Jersey to be exporting our jobs over the rivers. Without businesses locating in our cities – our cities will always be suffering. We should stop spending billions of dollars on transportation networks into these cities and instead spend the money on improving public transportation in OUR cities and promote job growth in OUR cities. Only 15 years ago in Philadelphia – none of those skyscrapers existed in what is now Center City. Contrary to your belief – it is on the backs of New JERSEYANS that has made NY and Philadelphia what they are today, not the other way around. Those cities enjoy all the ratables – and business taxes, while we incur all the expense of the residents – schools, hospitals, police, fire, transportation, not to mention unending sprawl. Residents cost more than businesses in terms of infrastructure expenses, that’s why businesses are called ratables – because they bring in the tax revenue without incurring the cost.

    As for a getting a governor who isn’t corrupt – it seems like we may finally have one that isn’t corrupt and will finally make the tough decisions that need to be made to turn this state around. For the last four years – we had a pseudo New Yorker in Trenton. I don’t think Christie will be kissing New York’s ass (not to mention the unions’ asses) like so many other past governors have done.

  8. I’ll make one last point – what New Jersey sports? We aren’t know for having any of these teams – other than the Devils and the Nets – and they didn’t need the Giants or Jets to attract them – since neither one played in that New Jersey state owned facility known as Giants Stadium. New Jersey gets NO recognition for having the Giants, Jets or Red Bulls. I’ve lived in six states and been to 40 – along with Canada and England. I know damn well what people think of New Jersey and I also know that many people think that New Jersey is actually a part of New York. Let’s face it – northern New Jersey is actually the sports capital of America – or even the world. We play host to international world competitions, such as the World Cup, we have Olympic teams that practice here, we have 2 NFL teams, we have two major league soccer teams, we have major league Lacrosse, we have NBA and of course we have our VERY proud to be New JERSEY NHL team – the New JERSEY Devils. Yet – New York is routinely given the title, but they have nothing on what northern New Jersey has and what we offer.

    All I can think of is that you have been taken in by the brainwashing tactics of New York. Not that it is your fault. I mean look – where is New Jersey’s local Network news? Oh yeah – forgot – we don’t have our own network news – we have NY and Philadelphia’s network news. Instead of hearing about what happens in our state and cities, we get to hear how great New York and Philadelphia is. I can guarantee you that more New Jerseyans know what is going on in Albany and Harrisburg, then they do in Trenton. I mean – once in a while -a great while – these networks may throw the residents of New Jersey a bone and have something positive about New Jersey. But hey – especially with New York – if it starts being anything positive – all of a sudden it becomes a “New York area” attraction or event. All you have to do is just look at the “New York area” Rutger Football team. New York couldn’t be bothered with them while they were losing, all of a sudden a few years ago when they started winning they were being referred to as “New York area”. I’m wondering- how far does the blood sucking tentacles of New York extend?

  9. Sport teams aren’t meant to be walking tourism billboards for the states, they’re supposed to be extensions of the states so obviously the idea that having New Jersey on the team name just for that doesn’t work. Plus, the stadium is very close to Manhattan so that helps. Rutgers athletics, in general, is viewed as New Jersey. And next year when the Prudential Center with SHU hosts the NCAA tournaments it will be billed as being Newark, not New York. And from your comments it just appears that you hate New York and act like they’re going to invade Jersey like a neighboring country would. But let me give you the key word, NY and NJ are neighboring states in the United States, key word United, not separated. I’m not going to worry about “what Jersey could’ve been” over some events that happened during the colonial era, to hold grudges over events in the colonial era would just be preposterous. While New Jersey has a lot of events billed as New York, that is because it represents one of the most recognized cities in the United States, and New Jersey would not get these events without the location near New York. NJ Transit benefits from the events from New Yorkers and many tourists using them for events. Jerseyians benefit from having great events so close by such as the World Cup and the NFL. I’m sure if the New Meadowlands Stadium gets the Superbowl you will have many people staying in New Jersey. I’ll give you a nice comparison, the Vancouver Olympics, which was billed as Vancouver because the Olympics recognize Olympics by cities, had events not even in the same town as Vancouver with a small notice where it is. Many states and cities would love to have sports teams or would if they could. New Jersey currently has 4 of the big 4 sports league teams, with the exception being MLB, which would be a disaster. But to be fair, the Yankees help out Trenton alot by sending their rehabbing stars to Trenton, which almost always results in sellouts.

  10. For you to say that Sports teams aren’t meant to be walking tourism billboards is a very erroneous statement – why do you think most states give all the tax incentives TO these teams? Do you really think that it isn’t for the recognition and the promotion of their town???

    And as for the battle between New York and New Jersey – that has not ended at all. Yes we are a “United States” – but we are also SOVEREIGN states. Only a few years ago – New York prevented New Jersey from shooting off our OWN 4th of July fireworks in OUR own territorial waters by the Statue of Liberty? Why? Because we decided that Macy’s was charging us too much for the fireworks barge, Jersey City went with another company. But because of a 1832 compact between NY and NJ that gives NY navigational control over the waterway – including what is in OUR territory, they were able to block OUR barge from shooting off in the harbor. We were forced to shoot them off in Liberty State Park on land – instead of in front of the Statue of Liberty. We have also taken NY to court on numerous occasions for them dumping garbage in our waters, etc. Jersey City Versus New York City

    As for events supposedly having to be billed as “New York” – I don’t buy it – things that happen in Oakland California – aren’t billed as San Fransisco. The real money that is generated from these events – New Jersey doesn’t enjoy – because people around the world don’t realize that these events are happening in New Jersey. Everyone walking around with that stupid NY logo that the Giants adopted is one big advertising outlet for NY – while our tax dollars go to support the team. As I said in the post above – people should read “Major League Losers” and see how much New Jersey gets the shaft from these teams we host. Talk about a waste of tax payers money. It is no wonder why New Jersey has no image around the world – or even in the United States. If New Jersey PROPERLY got credit for the great things that our state hosts, we wouldn’t have this image problem and wouldn’t be considered “beneath” New York. But New Jerseyans blindly accept it for no good reason – other than New York and it’s media has convinced them.

    The Vancouver Olympic ALL took place in British Columbia. I don’t think Seattle or Washington State would have been very happy hosting the events and having it referred to as “Vancouver”. If the Detroit teams picked up and left for Windsor Canada, Windsor would not put up with the teams still calling themselves Detroit. I have found that once people start using the argument “well New York is so well known” or “New York is so close” they have basically run out of legitimate arguments to state their case. It seems you have run out of arguments as to why the teams and events that take place in New Jersey should be called New York – other than as I said before – you’ve been brainwashed by New York into thinking that that is the way it should be. According to them, as a lowly lowly New Jerseyan – you should just accept the crumbs they have to offer and be so very very thankful that we live next to the center of the universe. Well I don’t buy it – I live in new Jersey, am proud to be a New Jerseyan, New York is not part of New Jersey, I don’t care about what happens to that city, what I care about is what happens in New Jersey and that things that take place IN New Jersey should be properly marketed AS New Jersey. I don’t see the Nets planning on keeping their NJ name when they move to NY.

    As for the Super Bowl being hosted in New Jersey – if it isn’t marketed as New Jersey – then I really don’t care if we do get it. The hotel stays are a one shot deal. The lasting affects is in the promotion of the location and making people who hadn’t been there before to want to consider visiting the place. The thing is – NY is outside New Jersey completely. Unlike 99% of other teams that at least play in the same state, if people come to visit NY because of being bombarded with the promotion of an event, they don’t have to step foot in New Jersey – in which case New Jersey gets nothing of the long term benefits of hosting the event or team. You brought up the Olympics, what do you think the Opening Ceremonies are? It’s one big ass tourism advertisement. When sports teams play, the networks don’t just promote the team. At half time and between commercials they advertise the place, and for the Giants Jets, Red Bulls the Meadowlands, etc, their place is New JERSEY – NOT New York – but yet they end up only talking about New York – with fantastic shots of Manhattans Skyline – 13 miles away. Sounds like great tourism advertising to me – for New York that is. Hell if I was New York – I wouldn’t be complaining either. All the benefits – none of the tax burden. As New York sees it – have the fools across the river spend their tax money on the teams – we’ll just rake in the tourism dollars thank you very much and enjoy the free marketing.

  11. BTW – I had talked to George Zoffinger the one time – while he was still President of the NJSEA. He was great – and it really did irritate him that OUR teams were allowed to carry NY in their names and that many of the events taking place at the Meadowlands were marketed as New York. The one time he told me how he got a call from the Mayor of New York (I think it was Giuliani at the time, but may have been Bloomberg) who wanted to see a Giants game and fly his helicopter in. Well Giants Stadium is a no fly zone so he wanted to have that lifted for his helicopter. Zoffinger said no and had a NJ Transit map sent to his office showing him how he could get to Giants Stadium. It was so great! – I would have loved to have seen the look on the mayor’s face.

    BTW – the NJSEA is basically bankrupt now because of the deal that Codey made with the Giants. OUR New Jersey tax dollars at work. Good to know that a politician who loves a particular team can throw away New Jersey’s money so well.

  12. There is no war between the states, on 9/11 alot of New Jersey Fire Departments helped out New York. New York City skyline is one of the best sights to see, and the best place to see it is from here. Another point: If Formula 1 comes to New Jersey odds are it will be a great event to add to the numerous events of New Jersey, thanks to its proximity to New York, and more likely than not will take on the name United States Grand Prix, if they called a race at Indy the USGP, be sure it will be the USGP in New Jersey. Because if you look at the F1 schedule, events are named after countries, so can you have a problem with that?

  13. Just because 9/11 happened doesn’t mean that NY doesn’t take advantage of New Jersey or that there isn’t animosity between NJ and NY. The issue with us shooting off our 4th of July Fireworks that New YORK prevented – was in 2007 – AFTER 9/11. That is how much New York cared about those numerous New Jersey Firefighters that helped them during 9/11 and afterward. So don’t start throwing in 9/11. New York also continues to TRY to dump their garbage in New Jersey waters – and we continue to have to take them to court to prevent it. That is the big thank you that New Jersey got from the numerous sacrifices that New Jerseyans made for New York during and after 9/11.

    If Formula 1 comes to New Jersey – it was already stated that it was going to be called the New YORK Gran Prix – good try though. It was in the Star Ledger when they made the announcement – so yeah – I have a problem with it. And if it was the United State Gran Prix and was advertised as taking place in New Jersey – no I wouldn’t have a problem – because New Jersey is actually IN the United States, whereas we are not IN New York. You do really like to twist the argument though? So far no luck on your part. My argument is about things being promoted as New York when they are taking place in New Jersey. Period.

  14. Actually look at Formula One schedules, they did say New York Grand Prix, but they’re saying is a New York Grand Prix, odds are it will be promoted as the USGP unless the there were 2 GP’s in the United States. The fact that teams are named after major cities is still the key argument and one shouldn’t complain. Another argument: Charlotte Motor Speedway in NC isn’t in Charlotte, but in Concord AND the Charlotte Knights minor league baseball team is located in South Carolina with no complaints. Charlotte isn’t in Concord or South Carolina, right? The key to the Jets and Giants is making money, sorry, but the New Jersey Nets moving just shows how profitable the New Jersey identity was for them, and the Devils would have moved to Nashville IF they didn’t win a Stanley Cup in 1995 and still they fail to sell out regularly. In comparison, the Rangers, despite their struggles, sell out regularly, and help sell out the Prudential Center when they play the Devils. And no Ranger fans from Jersey aren’t brainwashed, most of them grew up either watching them as a New Yorker or when the Devils didn’t exist or became fans because of their parents are Ranger fans. The Islanders fail as a franchise, this is not about the team, because they take on the Long Island identity. Syracuse helps sell out both the RAC and the Prudential Center when they play SHU and Rutgers. But personally, I prefer it when colleges don’t have state identities but the identity and values of the college as a whole.

    All these issues aside from garbage dumping are small, to make New York an enemy over a firework show is too much. Its clear that you clearly hate New York. New York provides jobs to New Jersey, yes they’re stealing labor from other New Jersey businesses but those businesses can reel them back in by paying them more and giving them more benefits. No one wants to work in cities like Newark, aside from the parts near Penn Station, when they can get the same amount of money working in New York. Once that money is made in New York, guess where that money goes, into the pockets of the New Jersey workers and possibly to many of the businesses in New Jersey that one would spend their money on. The people benefit the jobs provided, and that’s what matters. Once Christie screws the teachers, you will see a lot of bright New Jersey teachers teaching in New York City because they pay more and understand the value of education. New Jersey transit has done more state injustice than the city of New York, they first planned on removing routes, then they decided to rip off NJ Transit riders with their price increases.

  15. This is really becoming quite hilarious, because you are just talking in circles and now trying to throw anything possible at the argument, even bringing in Chris Christie and the teacher union into it (which by the way – if you see the NY commercials, they are going through the same issues with their teachers, no different). However, I have no idea what they have to do with New JERSEY sports teams calling themselves NY, but okay. I suggest you read my other blog entry then – “The Exporting of New Jersey

    Of course now that I once again debunked one of your other arguments – the Gran Prix – you turn that around as well.

    As for the teams you mentioned, those teams may not play in the EXACT city where they are claim, however ALL those teams do play in the state of the city they wear on their uniforms. New York however is NOT in New Jersey and New Jersey certainly is NOT in New York.

    I don’t hate New York, I hate their politics and I hate the way they dump on New Jersey. There is a difference. The fact that New York shows no respect to New Jersey and New Jerseyans – I have a problem with. As a New Jerseyan, I don’t think I have to blindly accept it. The illustration of the 4th of July fireworks is just one example, but you prove my point on why New Jersey may never truly become as great as it can be. We have people who just accept the crumbs that are given to New Jersey and whether you disagree or not – have been brainwashed by New York into accepting it. You have demonstrated this very clearly by your arguments that New Jersey should have no problem with OUR teams not having enough pride in their home to wear OUR initials.

    As for the Nets, the Nets aren’t moving because they didn’t want to play in New Jersey. They are moving because of the endless years that it took to get an agreement for the Prudential Center. The Rock was going to host BOTH the NJ Nets and the NJ Devils. Christie Whitman had worked out the agreement with them, but before it was signed, she was picked to head up the EPA. After she left office, after years of negotiation, the agreement was ripped up and the whole process was started all over again. It was at that time that the Nets said screw this – we will look elsewhere.

    Contrary to your opinion however, being at the Prudential Center, the Devils draw HUGER crowds and it doesn’t take them playing the Flyers or the Rangers to fill the arena. As I told my cousin the one time (who is a turncoat Rangers fan) – many of the people going to the Rangers game at MSG are just tourists who are in town who want to see something at Madison Square Garden, it doesn’t matter what is playing there. Come on – the Rangers suck, who really wants to see them play?

    The problem was that the Meadowlands is in the middle of no where and that was the only reason why the Devils weren’t able to draw when they played there and is the reason why the Nets weren’t able to draw. The Giants and Jets are able to draw because the public transportation system of New Jersey caters to New York – so it is easier to get from Manhattan to the Meadowlands than it is from central New Jersey. Now with the Devils in Newark there is public transportation and it is also much easier to drive into Newark than it is into the Meadowlands from central New Jersey.

    BTW – everyone argues about teams being named after major cities? Do you know what the population of Green Bay Wisconsin is? I was just sort of wondering if you know where Newark and OUR cities stand in the hierarchy of major cities? Have you ever been to Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Detroit, Nashville, Phoenix? Because I have. I do know from personal experience what most cities around the country are like. I’ve been to over 40 states and I’ve lived in 6 of them. Let me tell you, Portland Oregon and Indianapolis Indiana – are very much like Jersey City or New Brunswick. The center of both these downtowns are basically 5 blocks while the rest is suburb. There is one thing that makes these cities different than New Jersey cities, and that is that they cover a lot more land area. New Jersey on the other hand have these cities that are densely populated, but have such a small land area, they aren’t thought of as major cities because they don’t have the total population size. Indianapolis is about the size in land area of New Brunswick, North Brunswick, Somerset and East Brunswick combined. Yet has a downtown not much bigger than New Brunswick. It is one of the side effects of constantly dividing our cities up into smaller and smaller pieces, they become uncompetitive and unimportant.

  16. The city thing is a huge argument, the Bills aren’t even in Buffalo. Newark or New Jersey don’t hold any huge international recognition that New York has. New York can be put in the same sentence as cities like London, Paris, Moscow, Barcelona, and Tokyo. If the Jets and Giants were to rename to New Jersey the NFL would be outraged and would probably work hard at finding a franchise to take on the New York name. You’re also talking about franchises with a huge sports history, changing the New York name would be the equivalent of renaming the Buffalo Bills the Orchid Park Bills. I’ll stay on this topic, but this one point. The Rangers are a popular team, its not tourists, go to a game and you’ll see that most fans have Jerseys, go to the NJ Transit section after a Ranger game and you’ll see that there are a huge amount of Ranger fans that came from Jersey to see the games. Ranger fans support their team even when they are terrible, that’s the hallmark of a team with a strong fan-base. Devil fans want to attribute it to tourism, but selling out every game, even on weekdays, is because of the fanbase. Trust me, you will never see the NY dropped from the NFL teams or the Red Bulls. Red Bull is an Austrian company, they definitely are looking at major cities. And Newark never would work for a major city team name for pro sports until they fully turn that dump around.

  17. Funny – I guess you’ve never personally been to Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Buffalo to actually see what those cities are like and how they compare to “the minor city” of Newark.

    Your argument about the NFL wanting the Giants and Jets to be named NY is ridiculous because until about 5 years ago – they weren’t promoted as “NY”, they were just the Giants and Jets. So try again.

  18. To be fair, New York doesn’t need free advertising at all from any of the sports teams. You complain about them having no reference to New Jersey, but what about Six Flags Great Adventure? If you’re thinking free advertisement for New Jersey tourism, why not ask why not instead of Great Adventure have the name Six Flags Over New Jersey. Then someone from California who opens a Six Flags Brocure would see the New Jersey name and think oh look Six Flags New Jersey has Kingda Ka instead of Great Adventure has Kingda Ka! There is a reason why there’s no complaints, because people from around the globe go to New Jersey to enjoy these parks, but do they really care if its in New Jersey? Personally the biggest touring boost this summer will be trips to the shore, because of MTV’s Jersey Shore show demonstrating the shore as a hot spot.

  19. And to make my point clearer, the New Meadowlands Stadium was funded by the Jets, Giants, and some financial assistance from the NFL. So New Jersey benefited from not paying anything for the new advanced Stadium through these teams. Unlike Rutgers Stadium which still hasn’t sold out since renovations.

  20. @ Robert. This is the problem they just don’t get it. The average New Jerseyan has no pride. I grew up and live in new jersey and I get laughed at for being a Devils and Nets fan. Makes no sense to me.

  21. I was with you till you downed the bronx. If anything your reputation was in the same boat as us.so Pluck jersey. New yorkers will continue reaping the benefits of your tax money

  22. Instead of crying about your lack of “recognition”, why dont you just start crying for your own damn teams!!! Both the Jets and the Giants are NEW YORK TEAMS….GET OVER IT!!!!! And if you must know why they refer to the East Rutherford as “NEW YORK”, it is because it IS considered to be a part of the “NEW YORK METROPOLITAN AREA” aka “GREATER NEW YORK” aka “METROPOLITAN NEW YORK” and the area has been referred too by any one of the above listed names for decades before either the Jets or the Giants went there, actually it was the reason for the Mara family to move the teams stadium to that part of NJ because it is known as “GREATER NEW YORK” so not only did they get to keep themselves aligned with the greatest city in the world but they also blessed lowly jersey with some NY glam……and this is how you repay us….. Take a look at some “FACTS” my friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

  23. Actually Ed – why doesn’t NY get it’s own teams. The Giants, Jets and red Bulls are ALL New JERSEY teams and have nothing to do with New York other than as a marketing gimmick. They haven’t been New York teams for over 30 years when they left New York. BOTH the Giants and Jets REMOVED the NY from their uniforms when they moved here and it had been that way for about 25 years that they played here. It was only about 5 years ago that they all of sudden decided that they were going to put NY back on. People seem to forget this little FACT.

    Maybe New York tax dollars should go to support then – then NY can claim them.

    As for the New York metropolitan area – your argument is meaningless. It’s just another way for the leach known was New York to sink its tentacles into more of what New Jersey has.

  24. Joseph – I really have nothing more to say. You’re arguments get more and more far fetched. The fact that you bring up Rutgers or Six Flags Great Adventure not calling themselves New Jersey proves this. BOTH promote themselves as BEING in New Jersey and NEITHER claims to have anything to do with New York. When a person opens up a Great Adventure brochure – it says “Jackson New Jersey” as the location. You would have an argument if Six Flags Great Adventure was called Six Flags over New York – but it isn’t.

    As for the new stadium being fully funded by the Giants and Jets – that’s a lie. Codey forgave the Giants millions in back lease payments on the old stadium, not to mention numerous transportation upgrades that are costing New Jersey, plus giving up all proceeds from any of the events or concessions that New Jersey used to receive. The list goes on and on about what Codey gave up to keep the Giants here (when they had no where else to go) – and is one of the reasons the NJSEA is basically bankrupt now.

  25. Still removing NY from a uniform doesn’t make it less of a New York team, look at the record books they say NY. Does that mean a team like the Penguins are any less of a Pittsburgh team just because of a logo? Read any record book, the football teams both were always New York, stop insisting on dumb facts.

  26. They aren’t dumb fact – that fact is regardless of how they promote themselves they are New JERSEY teams. They can call themselves New York all the want – doesn’t make them a New York team. It is New JERSEY tax money that has gone to support them all these years – and it is New JERSEY who they have to discuss anything with when they make any decisions – NOT New York. They have no association anymore with New York at all except that little “NY” they decided to put on their uniforms.

    It seems by reading these comments that people can’t handle the facts and that no matter how what the truth is – they will still believe the marketing gimmicks of the Giants, Jets and Red Bulls.

  27. Because the Jets and Giants began as New York teams with New York roots. New York works in the team name because it is universally known. Thierry Henry would not come to the Red Bulls to play for a team with New Jersey on it, he’s coming to play for a New York team. Its no different than the Washington Redskins who play in Maryland. You’re not a fan of either team, so why should you argue, you’re probably not a fan of any MLB team because theres no New Jersey team, so thus you don’t really care about these sports but really care about a name of the team. If it makes you happy Jersey Shore actually attracts more people to New Jersey for tourism than if these NFL teams had the name New Jersey on them.

  28. Another meaningless argument for them being considered a New York team. A lot of teams got their start in other places – they don’t continue keeping the name of their old home. You still have not demonstrated any factual evidence that they are New York teams other than that they market them as such.

    The reason why New Jersey isn’t known as well as New York – is because so much that New Jersey host in that area is MARKETED as New York. I just saw an advertisement yesterday for the Red Bulls Air Race New York – guess where it is actually taking place? Liberty State Park in Jersey City New JERSEY. If new Jersey was marketed for all the things that take place here – it would get name recognition too and be world known.

  29. The Jets and Giants play in the New York market. The majority of people in New York are fans of the Jets and Giants and they have the Superbowl parades in New York. The name change thing is a dumb argument because the teams that have moved and changed their names are the teams that move miles away from their location. The Redskins are a DC team playing in Maryland, its the same thing. You forget to mention that events like Red Bull Air Race of New York would never be in New Jersey if it wasn’t for their proximity to New York, same with the Jets and Giants.

  30. I see that since you are now repeating yourself – and even restating erroneous information – that you have run out of reasons for the Giants and Jets being considered a “NY” team other than “that was what is on their uniforms”

    The fact is they aren’t New York teams – no matter what they put on their uniforms – they are New Jersey teams and they ONLY negotiate deals with the NJ state government and the New JERSEY Sports and Exposition Authority. Their corporate headquaters aren’t even located in New York – they are in New Jersey – making them a New Jersey company. All the Super Bowl trophies are where?? You got it – New JERSEY.

    As for the statement concerning the Super Bowl parades – again erreoneous information. The Giants Super Bowl parades are NOT held in New York – only one was held in New York – the other two were held in New Jersey. Hell if New York wants to give OUR teams Super Bowl Parade – that is great. Doesn’t mean that the Giants and Jets aren’t New Jersey teams and are instead New York teams.

    I would also like to know what does the fact that most New Yorker’s rooting for the Giants and Jets have to do with whether they are a New Jersey or New York team? Most New Jerseyans root for the Giants and Jets. Actually – most of the fans of the Giants are New Jerseyans – not New Yorkers.

    You have no idea whether the air race would be taking place in New Jersey if it wasn’t for New York. Regardless of what they named it – it is a New Jersey event and has nothing to do once more with New York – it is taking place at OUR tax funded state park in Jersey City. We have a lot of international events that take place throughout New Jersey that aren’t marketed as New York.

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